big arduinome group buy! - details inside

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- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008 edited
UPDATE:

the group buy is full for now :D

i will send payment information to everyone when the boards come in and one tests out. there will ultimately be some extras as some people back out, so you still may be able to get one in the future.

******

shields have been ordered, this is my gift to the monome community for the great support and feedback i have received regarding the arduinome project.

the silkscreen change isn't that different but here it is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/unsped/3003454888/
the flickr page also serves of a list of people requesting shields

qty: 128, blue soldermask, lead free tinning, 4 weeks (was told they would probably ship out earlier)

1 302 Production 2-Layers 128EA 4.45 569.60
2 45 NRE Sales 1EA 160.00 160.00
3 95 Shipping & Handling 1EA 28.57 28.57
4 711 Tooling Disc. 1EA -160.00 -160.00

Grand Total: 598.17

or $4.67 per shield not including shipping

payment will be paypal or money order. for paypal i am going to ask you to cover the paypal fees. this is technically against paypal TOS, however since i am not making profit i would be losing money by accepting paypal. if you don't agree with paying the fees you have the option of sending a money order.

5.12 USD
5.12 USD = 5.12 USD (1 USD = 1.00000 USD)
- 0.00 USD (2.5% Currency Conversion Fee) (if your sending non USD funds)
- 0.15 USD (2.9% PayPal transaction fee)
- 0.30 USD (PayPal fixed fee)
= 0.45 USD (PayPal Fees)
= 4.67 USD (Amount Received)

im not sure what shipping will be at this point, but i imagine just first class mail in an envelope with some cardboard to protect it ... so probably less than a dollar.

also just a caveat, the boards are not electrically tested and its possible although unlikely that the board would be bad, this as well as loss in the mail is a risk you take buy purchasing a shield from the group buy.

ORIGINAL POST BELOW:

when i was first having the arduinome made, i got a quote from travis at 4pcb ... and it gets nice and cheap in higher quantities.

i believe 3-day in 32 qty is $10.31 per shield.

if there is enough interest for a large group buy i can talk with travis and see what we can do. im guessing maybe 50 shields or so, and i would probably number them for fun :D
- CommentAuthorphsr
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
If you can get to that price, I'm definitely in. It would give me an excuse to build another monome (that is if I finish the first one!)
- CommentAuthorlukas412
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
I'm in for at least 3.

Thanks,

Luke
- CommentAuthorearthrise
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
sorry for the lack of knowledge but i have a question or two. if i got this, an inclosure from machine collective and some form of button pads (sparkfun?) what else would i need? also if there a way to link them to form a 256? if i can make a 256 then i'd take 5, if not then i'd take 1.

:)
- CommentAuthorHOW?
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
you can count me in for 2.

for months I've been obssessed with the idea of obtaining a monome. I've been incessantly checking this board hoping to acquire one or at least an official kit, but my patience and lack of technical knowhow only seem to grow further and further exceeded by my obsession...so I'm building an arduinome!!!

(I'm sure you guys'll help if I have a question or two...)
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008 edited
here is the initial feedback, looks like the price has gone up a little bit.
http://unsped.googlepages.com/pricing.jpg

64 standard, 3 day seems to be ideal
- CommentAuthorseeyouinsleep
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
So how much will it cost to fully build it.
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008 edited
for the shield, or the whole thing?

also maybe i could get the materials, and package them as full kits, possibly even offering prebuilt shields. it would definitely bring the price down on some of the parts like the 7219 (10.50 to 6.50)

its about $10 in parts if you buy everything, although maybe i would leave out the max chip as you can get a free sample.

so for the shield:

$8.61
$3.50 for everything except the max72xx chip

rough estimate for shield total: $12.11 (plus shipping, plus max chip)

arduino costs $34.95 from sparkfun
4 buttonpad $10x4 = $40 from sparkfun
4 buttonpad pcb's $10x4 = $40 from sparkfun

64 led's, roughly $10
64 diodes $2
2 16-16pin cables $5

breakaway headers roughly $2

so total cost for an arduinome without an enclosure and at the 64 pricepoint is roughly: $8.61 + $3.50 + $34.95 + $40 + $40 + $10 + $2 + $5 + $2

- $146.06 excluding taxes, shipping and free max chip
- CommentAuthorseeyouinsleep
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
yea whole thing as i am broke as shit or else i wouldent be trying to sell my new 1700$ tablet to get a monome lol
- CommentAuthorxndr
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
I'm also interested in a 2nd shield.. I do have a couple of suggestions on how to improve the shield and header positioning. Also 3mm mounting holes would be a nice addition... Do you think it will be worth the extra effort?
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
xndr, i know what you mean however i would really hate to do a group buy on an untested shield for obvious reasons, the nice thing about the current design is that we know it works.

i have wanted to redesign the shield and make it the standard shield shape and move the cable headers to a better location, perhaps it could be redesigned, get a single copy from 4pcb verify that it works, then roll that cost into a redesigned shield order.

also we can get free tooling costs on the custom spec, so if we want larger quantity or don't care about the lead time we can get the cost down further.
- CommentAuthorxndr
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
I think the few extra $ for each shield won't hurt.. it's still a lot cheaper than the current batches of 5.. Only downside is that it would take a bit longer before the final batch is ready.. although I wonder if 50 orders will be reached...

Wouldn't it be cool if the shields can be sold by the monomes themselves? It could work like with the 10h pcb's.. or maybe as a complete kit with parts included..
- CommentAuthorfogflip
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
any word on an rgb 8x8 board
- CommentAuthorveggieryan
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
im in for enough parts to build a 256...
- CommentAuthorphsr
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
if we can get 64 and we want to wait for 4 week turn around, we could get them 5/board (or am I reading it wrong?)
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008 edited
that would be correct, because they would waive the tooling fee as one of their specials.

@veggie: you would have to write a custom software router (in python etc) to turn 4 arduinomes into a 256, something nobody has done yet.

@fogflip: i don't have a paid version of eagle so i can't do it myself. i could roll the software cost into a groupbuy (the layout editor is 500 dollars!) but i don't know that it would be a popular decision lol. like 32 people would pay a $15 dollar development costs fee, in return they would get in on the group buy. then could wait a little bit before posting board files for everyone else. or if some rich guy wants to donate eagle :D
- CommentAuthorRed_Dog
- CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
Count me into this group buy. I was just building my list until I saw this thread.
- CommentAuthorvinayk
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008
ive posted in on the australian group buy

how much would it cost to ship all this to OZ?

vinay
- CommentAuthorxndr
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008
>> or if some rich guy wants to donate eagle :D
@unsped: Get KiCad ;-)

@vinayk: maybe one of the OZ group buy guys can join this order and distribute locally...
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008 edited
i do think that maybe a rgb full panel may be something best left to the diy-er for a number of reasons:

- its going to cost quite a bit, i would imagine a single panel will be in the $125-ish range.

- rgb apps will most likely need to be hand rolled by the end user, users comfortable with this are probably comfortable with soldering in a connector.

- rgb may be better handled by gubermans method of having each 4x4 be independent (1 16channel pwm driver for each led and transistors for changing color channels)

i would like to play around with the rgb, but i plan to do so on a propeller chip which seems like it may behave nicer on handling the serial and keeping the pwm drivers updated.

there are also methods we could come up with to make adapting the boards easier, like little pcb strips that would handle alot of the wiring for you.

@xndr/everyone else: what would you like to see changed on the current shield?
- CommentAuthorxndr
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008
1. Since almost everybody is using sparkfun keypads it might be smart to make wire connector groups on the shield pcb so it will be easier wire the whole thing...

E.g. shield connector 1 = keypad 1 -> vertical 1 =
led-gnd4
swt-gnd4
led-gnd3
swt-gnd3

shield connector 2 = keypad 1 -> vertical 2

shield connector 3 = keypad 1 -> horizontal 1 =
blue4
switch4

shield connector 4 = keypad 1 -> horizontal 2 =
blue3
switch3

etc...

That would eliminate the need to wire the keypads together.. so each keypad PCB could be connected to the shield PCB individually.

Using separate connectors would mean using 24 connectors, which might be overkill.. but each keypad could also be connected using two pre-wired 8 pin connectors.. like something similar to the picture I have attached..

Every Arduinome problem I have seen so far was caused by faulty wiring or solder bridges.. so simplifying the wiring process would make it much more user friendly...

2. mounting holes: at least two M3 mounting holes for the shield itself

3. wire/connector board: bigger mounting holes, a bit closer to the edge, further away from the connectors. 2 holes might be enough? More spacing between pinheader and wiring holes.. but maybe this part can be eliminated when using the connectors I mentioned above.. ?

4. extra solder pads next to the Arduino headers, so every pin can still be accessed when shield sits on top of the Arduino...

That's about it ;-)
- connector.jpg
- CommentAuthormavo
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008
i need one shield (i live in italy).
please send me an email for further informations
scena3 at hotmail dot it
thanx
marco
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008 edited
i originally was looking at the many connectors options, however they seem fairly expensive. perhaps we can find a cheaper source?

the cheapest but hardest, would be to make them out of female headers.
- CommentAuthorasafnetzer
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008
I'm in for 2 shields.
Regarding the connections, as there is a plan to make one 8x8 pcb for the sparkfun keypads maybe we could see that the connections fits ?

Thanks for offering / optimizing.

Asaf
- CommentAuthorohararp
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008 edited
I had been working on a recent deisgn to include the Arduino and the Shield on the same pcb. Additionally I did all the design work for an 8x8 pcb using the sparkfun buttons. I shelved the idea for a bit since I have been prepping for makerfaire and a few other projects.

I think by working with xndr (EU folks) and either I or curious_inventor we could locally source most of the items needed for this project. I wouldn't do a group buy but I would sell preassembled arduino/shields since the design was all smt. If there is an interest in pursuing this I don't mind making the effort on it.
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2008 edited
awesome do you have any pics of the progress thus far? people could always do their own group buys as well if they were comfortable with smt parts im assuming.

might even be neat to have a 4 layer board and put the arduino/controller on the backside of the board. but probably a bit prohibitive.
- CommentAuthortehn
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2008
@ohararp: unless you're planning on distributing at cost you'd be violating our non-commercial license.

i applaud the DIY efforts here, and i understand that the sense of demand outrunning supply makes the prospect of crossing into for-profit arduinome production very attractive to some-- i assure you that perceived demand is much higher than actual demand. the nature of the internet allows for this sort of distortion. we expect to re-open public orders very soon, in addition to announcing new editions and kits.
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2008 edited
double to what tehn said,

no offense to any soldering butterfingers, but if you don't feel comfortable with the diy aspects of the arduinome your going to be really disappointed when it comes to getting it running. there are some suggestions to making the kit easier to use, but if the arduinome wasn't just hacking off the shelf parts it would get alot more expensive ... even moreso than the monome kit. its definitely not a turnkey solution and i've always recommended building a 40h instead, while it might seem really advantageous vs. a non existent monome in the end your going to save yourself ALOT of trouble waiting for new editions and kits from monome.
- CommentAuthorohararp
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2008
tehn, my bad on the Commercial license bit...I do all smt stuff and thought this would be a fun side project. Seemed like others were interested, but I have no problem making some boards and redistributing at cost.

I looked at several layout options but felt the arudino baord and logic board made the most sense. The single pcb using a 4 layer board is an interesting thought. I'd have to look at the costs of going this route instead.
- CommentAuthorReadyWater
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2008
Hello,
I'm definitely interested in getting in on this. I'm in Toronto. I'd be inclined towards the full kit thing as well.
One thing though: I've never really done a project like this before. I'm pseudo familiar with soldering and whatnot, but yeah.
Also, I'm not entirely clear on this: can the arduinome run _all_ the apps for the monome, eg the recent sevenuplive one, say? Or does each one require a bit of recoding to do?

Thanks
- CommentAuthorrolnxyz
- CommentTimeOct 27th 2008
I am in
- CommentAuthorayuh
- CommentTimeOct 27th 2008
im down for a shield foh sho
- CommentAuthorShimomitsu
- CommentTimeOct 28th 2008
I would definately be down for 1 arduinome shield, this sounds great! Let me know more information about buying, etc.

shimomitsu@gmail.com

Thanks!

p.s. shipping within U.S.
- CommentAuthorphsr
- CommentTimeOct 28th 2008
how are we looking on this?? is it gonna happen?
- CommentAuthormurphs
- CommentTimeOct 28th 2008
hi , living in ireland would be interested in a shield alright
- CommentAuthorunsped
- CommentTimeOct 28th 2008 edited
at the moment, i think either the current design at the 4 week leadtime. or redesign the shield.

im also thinking about just redesigning the adapter board since it causes the most trouble. if you want an arduino relatively soon i would suggest the normal group buys.

perhaps dual rows of mounting holes, so you dont have to bridge the sparkfun boards together which can be tricky.

bigger more spread out pads will help as well, but i'm not sure what i can fit on the free version of eagle.
- CommentAuthorgrnr
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2008
hi, i've been lurking on this forum for a couple of days and investigating the whole arduinome concept for a couple of weeks now, so let me say i'd be up for one of these shields too - i'm in the uk.

e: iamgrnr@gmail.com
- CommentAuthorphsr
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2008
I'm in for the wait. I still havent finished my arduinome yet (already have a shield) but i definitely would like another shield to make me build another. Unsped, take your time ;)
- CommentAuthorhturan
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2008
If the there aren't any more UK people willing to get in on a group shield buy, then I'll join this list. The cheap production cost should go some way to offsetting the more expensive postage, hopefully.
- CommentAuthorrorris
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2008
I'd love to get 2 shields or full kits if unsped was going to offer that.

rich at strangebirdlabs dot com

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big arduinome group buy! - details inside