tintinnabulome

applications

- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 1st 2008 edited
Most recent version 0.94:

http://post.monome.org/?PostBackAction=Download&AttachmentID=1498

[my original post follows]

I'm not (yet) a programmer, just a dabbler and appreciator. So my thoughts are not as tight as would be someone with real programming experience. But I've got not so much a request for an app as a kind of brainstorm, a nascent idea. I'm hoping that some programmers out there in the community will want to brainstorm this with me. It would be fun if it resulted in a real app at some point!

Composer Arvo Pärt has this compositional technique called tintinnabulation. I talk about it some on my web log, Tetramorph:

http://tetramorph.blogspot.com/

and here is a direct link to my post about Pärt and tintinnabulation:

http://tetramorph.blogspot.com/2008/11/arvo-prt-and-tintinnabulation.html

Basically, one "voice" arpeggiates the tonic triad while another "voice" simply moves stepwise up (and down) the given scale or mode. I think this could be creatively paired with the "decoupled grid" of the monome, but my thoughts as to how best to do so are really nascent. I've been thinking of Stretta's polygomé and cygnet. So (sacred) minimalist technique would meet (technological) minimalist interface!

Some initial brainstorming: the pattern generation of something like polygomé could be used to generate the "tintinnabular voice," which is the arpeggiation, then another "page," or "layer" could be used to start the step wise motion of the other voice with the columns and rows being used to start at different points within the given mode. The top row of buttons could be, as in polygomé, dedicated to functions, such as holding an arpeggio or step-motion voice, and toggling between the two voices. Options given on screen would include changing the length of the notes in each voice relative to one another and relative to the bpm. Lots of modes and tonal relationships would be in menus on screen as well.

Does this sound like a fun project?

And, friends, if one of you out there ever actually realizes this app, please remember, I've only got a 64! Looking forward to responses. Thanks!
- CommentAuthorbonanza9
- CommentTimeDec 2nd 2008
this sounds really interesting.

i'd definitely be up for having a go at this...

b9
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 3rd 2008
Great! I'd love to hear any of your ideas as to how to better realize this app.
- CommentAuthorclaytron
- CommentTimeDec 4th 2008
Sounds interesting to me as well, but I can't say I quite understand entirely. Could you give an couple of examples of sets of notes that you might expect for each voice... and perhaps a sample progression in said notes?
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 5th 2008
@claytron:

Well, your question makes me realize the stark simplicity of what I was envisioning and that perhaps its main problem would be that, as an app, it may simply be too boring.

I guess a lot of the apps out there generate some pretty mad and rad electronica and rhythm - I think I was trying to envision something slower, calmer, more meditative, something that would generate something more ambient. Perhaps I just need to experiment with something like Stretta's polygomé at 50 or 60 bpm!

I guess the real time change I would like to have on the monome would be which key or mode the voices would be in. Then, what the starting tone of the scale run would be. Whether, like an arpeggiator, it would go up, down, or up and down. Same with the arpeggiating voice. Then there would be something that would allow for these motions to be designated a certain rhythm per bpm, and vary the ratio between the tintinnabular voice and the scale voice.

This would be really boring if one were trying to do fast paced electronica stuff. But I think it could be really beautiful for slower, ambient stuff.

As I re-describe it, I'm not sure what the "decoupled grid" should be used for. Instead of initiating note runs and arpeggios, perhaps that should just be assumed and both would begin, from preset "1," (so to speak) as soon as one hit the space bar and started the clock.

So then the gird may be better used for shifting the mood of the piece by shifting the tonality, shifting up, down and up/down patterns, and shifting note duration ratios between the two voices. Then, perhaps, allowing for a bit more polyphony that just two voices.

Sorry, I'm not a programmer, so my thoughts are very nacent. I guess what I'd like to see realized is a more ambient pattern generator. Something like Stretta's Cygnet, but for the 64 (with tilt).

What do you think? Thanks.
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
I don't think the concept is boring. It does seem ideally suited to my obsession about Max and harmony via the natural modes. Also, I'm a fan of Arvo Pärt.

I'm pondering various implementations that leverage the monome surface in a way that is rewarding to play. I'll continue to ponder this. Unfortunately, this is the busiest time of the year for me, both personally and professionally, through the NAMM show in January. If I have a flash of insight, I'll post it here.
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
Thanks, Stretta. Looking forward to future posts.
- CommentAuthorclaytron
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2008
I wasn't in any way commenting on the merits of the idea, I'm just having trouble understanding the basic concept. I'm light on music theory, so it's hard for me to make sense of what you're asking for. I look at this stuff as numbers, so thats why I'm asking for sample progressions.

I understand the qualities you're going for, but I need a simpler mechanical explanation of it.
- CommentAuthorenantiodroma
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2008
listening to the example on your blog i +1 the idea
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2008
I keep circling back to a combination of press cafe and polygomé. You could get pretty close with polygomé, but I think you need to be able to have access to different metrical subdivisions to combine.

My first thought was to set up a purely modal grid, offset by scale degrees, but there would be a lot of overlap, and not very interesting. Maybe if each column was a 'voice' of a sort and there were attributes you could assign to the voice, like what modal degrees it would arpeggiate. Each button on the column would trigger the arpeggiation at a progressively faster metric subdivision. When you play a column, the LEDs on that column light that correspond to the scale degree being played.

Maybe two column modes. An arpeggiation mode. (already explained) A homophonic mode (where a chord is defined by scale degree relationships, and each button on the column shifts the chord relationship up one scale degree progressively. This mode is played 'freely' without the clock triggering the notes.)
- CommentAuthoroccular
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2008
This sounds very interesting to me too. I'm also a big fan of Pärt and polygome.
Definitively looking for more..

occ
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
@Claytron:

Yes, thanks for the encouragement. I guess I didn't mean to come across so self-deprecating. I guess I just meant that my descriptions so far didn't seem to convey the idea in a way that matched my own hopes!

So the "tintinnabular" voice is just an arpeggio: moving up and down the notes of a given chord, so, the one, three and five of that chord. The chord could be in any mode (e.g., start on any of the white keys, for example) so long as it served as the tonic (starting note) chord for that scale. The other voice would move up and down that particular mode or scale. I was originally envisioning these two things happening on different "pages," toggled by a function button. Is that helpful?

@enantiodroma:

Thanks for checking out the blog, and thanks for the encouragement.

@Stretta:

Thanks for thinking about how to realize this in a new way. I am excited about what you are describing. Different metrical subdivisions make sense. I love Polygomé and I've noticed that others have commented on your Polygomé discussion that they would like to see the possibility of different time values for the patterns with respect to the BPM. Something like that?

I love press café as well. Some combination of the two would be powerful. I suppose I should start another discussion for what I'm about to say, but, your mentioning of press cafe reminds me that, as an owner of a 64 who only has max runtime, I love it but can't really fully utilize it: I miss out on 3/4 of the options! I would love to see press cafe made more accessible to the 64 and with the quality of interface that Polygomé currently has. (I know you don't do anything else with your time ;).)

I like the description you give of the arpeggiation (tintinnabulation) mode. But I am a bit confused by your description of the homophonic mode. Wouldn't it need to progress up (and/or down) the scale step wise? And thereby need to be triggered by the clock?

Thanks for this envisioning; it is fun and I appreciate it.

@occular:

Thanks for the word.
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2008
I'm visiting family currently, so much of this is done on a laptop without a monome, but this is a rough idea of what I was talking about earlier.

Top row is hold.
Last column is modal degree.
The remaining buttons 'play'

You'll have to set up a bit before it will do anything - mainly selecting which modal scale degrees each column voice will activate.

I'm not sure how useful this is as I wasn't able to actually play it, but I'd plan an up/down arp mode - maybe an oct range for the arpeggiator and some other things that are escaping my mind, but this should get you started.
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 19th 2008
Here is the file.
- tintinnabulome.zip
- CommentAuthorsursiks
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
well, sounds cool... but what's the prefix, if you don't mind?
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
tin
- CommentAuthorherrreinholt
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
Hi stretta,

this is allready a beautifull app,I get some stuck notes though.

I have to go towork again in a few hours and still can´t stop playing around with it!

Thanks,

hr
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
Stretta --

Wow. RAD. Unexpected. Cool.

Between putting my kid down for bed, dinner, clean up, helping a friend, I've only had a few minutes with it at this point, but it is amazing so far. I can't stop fiddling with it. I've got a bell/vocal sound and it's like a Christmas carol machine in my house (and that is a good thing, especially right now).

One thing I hope you will consider adding as (at least I am hoping that) you continue to develop this app would be tilt functionality, eventually with assignable midi values (like in polygomé).

I do have a few questions, but I am not sure if they are simply the results of unfamiliarity. So I will fiddle a bit more before I post concrete questions.

Thank you, Stretta. I can't believe that you were able to churn this out over holidays with family and without a monome around! You indeed make things and share them. Axios!

Peace -- Tetramorph
- CommentAuthorkeith_chambers
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
I have the sticking bug as well -- I think it's a bug anyway. I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding how this guy works but I can say that it's a lot of fun!

Huge thanks to Tetramorph for posting the idea and of course to Stretta for kicking out another gear app!

Please Stretta, whatever you do, don't take any medication to treat your obsession. :-)
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
I'm pretty sure you'll get stuck notes if you're in homophonic mode and change the mode while a button is held down. The arpeggiator should be pretty solid as it uses makenote. If you're getting stuck notes using the arpeggiator, then that must be an unknown bug.

One obvious thing I'm planning is entering in the modal degrees from the monome. That is what the remaining top right button will be for - a mode switch so you can do this.
- CommentAuthoremergencyofstate
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
first off, this is really musical. awesome concept/work guys.

has anyone else been able to sync to external beat clock? I went through the normal procedure with both Logic and Ableton (as i do with polygomé) and couldn't get it running.
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
I think I am having almost as much fun with this proto-app right now as I do with the much more developed polygomé!

@emergencyofstate

I too am unable to sync with Logic

@keith_chambers (& herrreinholt)

You are welcome with regards to the name/concept and starting the brainstorm -- the rest of the thanks goes, of course, to the brainstorming monome community and Stretta's particular gift.

I am experiencing a "problem" (at least, I don't think, from Stretta's description, that this was what he had in mind) that may be what you are calling "stuck notes."

In my case, each column "does what it is supposed to do," that is, the run as defined by the boxes I have checked on screen and according to the relative speed of the row button I push on the monome. When I press more than one column's buttons, however, it seems to create some kind of "interference" and it generates (cool, unexpected, sometimes annoying) unpredictable results. What I've been able to detect so far is that it seems to force the first column I've triggered to now (more or less) suddenly track with the currently deployed column. Or what was set for "up" is suddenly triggering "down." The patterns seem to "lock" with one another. It seems (sometimes, but not always) to defeat the "tintinnabulational" purpose.

Does that describe what you have meant as "stuck notes"? Or are you describing something else you are experiencing?

@stretta

Is what I am describing above what you intended? Is there a way to predict these "interference patterns"? Or am I right in thinking that these are, in fact, some kind of bug?

I suppose I am (I hope not stupidly) confused about the use of the "X" boxes and the scale degree. It allows me to check more than one, which gives me the impression that I am to check which notes within that scale I want triggered and leave un-X-ed those notes which I do not. Or am I only to have one box checked and that indicates the starting point of a scale run? Or is that only for homophonic mode? Sometimes they work either way, sometimes neither! So I can't decide which is the bug and which is the intention.

Thanks, again, for sharing this (really fun and untested) first draft.
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 21st 2008
I think the reason sync doesn't work is I'm tapping off another area of the clock. This needs to be hooked up to the beat clock sync options.

The arpeggiator is designed to cycle across the modal degrees, so yes, more than one check box is intended. You shouldn't get very interesting results unless more than one is selected. The check boxes apply to both arp and homophonic modes.

I haven't been able to test multiple columns running as I don't have a monome. Each column should operate independently, but it may be I messed something up so the clocking isn't independent per column. I'll take a look at it, but I doubt much can be done before I return and hook a monome up to it - at that point it should be obvious what the issue is. Anyway, sorry about that.
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 21st 2008 edited
OK - found one foolish mistake. The coll the stores the scale degrees wasn't independent for each column. Added one little '#' and it should operate a lot better. This may even help the stuck notes issue.
- tintinnabulome 0.801.zip
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2008
So I've had a bit more time. I am still really enjoying this app!

Stretta, your fix solved the problem and each column is clearly working independently. Thanks!

I am looking forward to the other additions/modifications you've already described above, like use of the top right button and more arpeggiation options. I know you'll come up with other ideas when you are actually able to give this thing a test-drive with your own monome!

After having some more time to play with it, in addition to adding the kind of tilt features that polygomé has, here are some more thoughts from brainstorm:

Top right button could toggle "hold-all" on and off instead (just a consideration - I find myself wanting to knock everything off without having to hit the space bar and stop the clock).

It would also be nice to be able to also hold a chord with the hold button of a column in homophonic mode.

I actually found myself kind of missing the inanity and unpredictability of the first uncorrected version. Could (perhaps a slightly more predictable version of) it be added back into a future revision as a kind of "tintomizer," like gomeizer in polygomé?

I know there are ways to make rhythms crisscross each other by using things like 1/4 with 1/6, etc. But it would be nice if you could trigger a column one relative syncopated unit away from the central beat, in the same way that polygomé allows.

That is to say, if you are going to trigger two 1/8 note columns, it would be nice to trigger an 1/8 note pattern on the second column, but be able to start one 1/16 note off from the other. Does that make sense? Would it be possible?

As it is, now that the error has been corrected and each column is truly independent, they can sound kind of lock-stepped with respect to one another. Probably what Pärt would have wanted, but I think not quite as usable for monomers.

There are seven buttons so there are a limited number of possible rhythm values possible, starting with 1/8 as smallest - and I think that makes sense given the spirit of the app. Could there, however, be a drop down menu that shifted those possibilities up or down so that 1/16 notes would be possible one direction, and, I don't know, maybe dotted whole notes or two whole notes possible the other direction. Shifting one way or the other would "roll off" the possibility at the other end so that the 9 (or more) possible rhythms would still only yield 7 buttons at a time - keeping the minimalist spirit of the app. Does that make sense?

Finally, a thought about design. Perhaps a future version could render the column selection toggles as themselves columns instead of rows, so that they really visually matched what the monomer was dealing with with regards to his/her hands.

All these ideas, I hope, merely indicate that you've drafted a great app here, Stretta. Thanks again.
- CommentAuthoroccular
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2008 edited
I think I've spot a bug:

if all rows are in homophonic mode, they play only the chords of the second row, regardless of the note settings.

edit: here my first performance on the app:

http://www.vimeo.com/2603883

Merry Chirstmas !
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2008
@occular

That was really nice! Thanks for posting the first vid of this app in action - good in terms of showing its features, how musical it is, and in being so fitting for the season!

How did you manage to play those left-most columns so melodically?

Thanks!
- CommentAuthoroccular
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2008 edited
@ Tetramoprh:

thanks for the nice words!

I think its the bug, I've described above ^
I set the second row to homophonic mode and only one note in Max is checked( first one).
The first and third row is in homo-mode too. So I was able to play individual notes.. Maybe that would be a nice addition to the app ?
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2008
@occular

Okay, found it. Very fun! Truly a Christmas carol machine. Thanks.
- CommentAuthorstretta
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2008
Ahhaha. Totally didn't expect a video. This is the first time I've seen the software in use, strangely enough.

All good suggestions + bug reports. I have one more day in Texas and I'll be home on the 24th. Still a crazy time of year for me, up through the NAMM show, so calibrate your expectations accordingly.
- CommentAuthordadek
- CommentTimeJan 15th 2009
http://soundcloud.com/dadek/tin-two

tintinnabulome meditation - live capture
- CommentAuthori am genko
- CommentTimeJan 15th 2009
really cool dadek, i like it.
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeJan 15th 2009
Wow, dadek, that was beautiful. That was exactly the kind of aesthetic I was envisioning for this app.

I would love to read a bit more of a description of how you set up / meditated this piece (if you would like to share).

Please also consider sharing improvisations like this on Vimeo. It is nice to watch how a monome conductor puts this stuff together in real time.

I have been meditating with / on this app as well. I plan to share those soon. Thanks again!
- CommentAuthordadek
- CommentTimeJan 15th 2009
Thanks.

Four columns in the 'tintinnabulome' running to RAX as a plug-in host for Kontakt 3. Playing kalimba and bowed piano samples. (Into a Lexicon Reverb) The durations were extended to '1.1' or so to allow the sustain of the piano bows. In the second half I enable a script in K3 on the kalimba that repeats the note played according to release.

Once running I'm just enabling the four columns with a few transpositions. I tweaked the tempo during the performance as that helps get tracks back on the right beat division.

Not set up for video yet.
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeJan 15th 2009
dadek, that is a really helpful description. Now I've got to imagine how I could paint an impression of that with Logic Express.

Thanks.
- CommentAuthordadek
- CommentTimeJan 17th 2009
http://soundcloud.com/dadek/tin-one

This was the first thing I did in /tin.

Just three columns cycling. Strings and vocals.
- CommentAuthoroccular
- CommentTimeJan 17th 2009
I very like the first one you made, really inspiring !
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeJan 17th 2009
@dadek

Amazing. I thought it was a Christmas carol machine. But now, it truly is a Pärt machine. I love both of your tracks but that last one was truly meditatively beautiful. Please keep it up and keep sharing!

I need to return to this app (I've been really trying to learn Polygomé) and start trying to do some meditative work myself.

And when Stretta isn't busy with NAMM or blowing the world away inventing things like VOLTA (rad!), maybe we can come back to him with some more ideas to make this an even better app.

Thanks, dadek, and thanks, Stretta, for getting this app going.
- CommentAuthoroccular
- CommentTimeJan 18th 2009 edited
@tetramorph:
>I thought it was a Christmas carol machine.

I just did it just for my kids ! Hope you are not confused about that chrismas joke ;-)

edit: this app hides more power, than one can expect..
- CommentAuthorTetramorph
- CommentTimeJan 18th 2009
@occular: Hey, no insult intended! Actually, quite a compliment! I thought your use of it was a perfect example of its simplicity and versatility. I shared it with many for Christmas wishes. Also, it was the first vid using it on Vimeo! So it was more than a joke for me.

Yes, I am looking forward to delving back into that power. But I do also intend on using it for some more Christmas cheer next Dec.! Peace.

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