All-in-one Arduinome 64 Logic Board

arduinome

- CommentAuthorfixatemusic
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2009
Price-wise, this seems very good. Even just getting a one-off board from Batch isn't that terrible, though I'll go into a group buy if we do one.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2009
Yeah and I didn't shop for the cheapest either so shop around for parts.
- CommentAuthorfuzz42
- CommentTimeOct 29th 2009
been away for a few days, i hate having to catch up on news, but this is awesome stuff starfire, really really good work. i want one!
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
This is actually awesome... an integrated matrix and 'duino? yea... this is crucial... slimline 'duinome... 'ere we go!
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
So now it's just a waiting game till I get the boards. I've increased trace and spacing size to reduce errors on their part.

Also is there still interest for the SMD version with the mini connector? I made that so things can be as thin as possible, if you don't socket the chips it's maybe a 1/4" thick, area wise there isn't that much of a difference just thickness.
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
I think an SMD version would be awesome but it would have to be beginner to intermiediate friendly...
- CommentAuthorActive
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
this is fantastic! great work starfire! i will keep my ear to this because i would love to get my hands on one or two....
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
Upping the learning curve isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've been avoiding SMD without the proper motivation to learn it.

My concerns are as follows:

* Mini USB cables aren't so ubiquitous as the regular size. You may have to buy a new cable where you'd otherwise have dozens of spares lying around. Not a huge deal.

* Is the physical connection as strong on a surface mount? Your USB port is under a fair amount of strain when you set up and disconnect, and it would suck for something to go wrong there before a show.

(I speak out of ignorance. Maybe it's more secure than the thru-hole equivalent. That's why I'm asking)

Either way, this is the big one:

* Supporting two versions splits your buying power, increasing cost on both.

If you can design your board to accommodate both options, that's fantastic. Otherwise, I think you should pick one and commit to it.

I don't care which, and in fact might prefer the SMD mini. So long as these concerns are considered, I'll support whichever choice you make.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
I've had no problems with a mini usb durablity but that's kind of up to how hard you are on equipment, as for cables I think there pretty universal now. Using a Mini A/B port pretty much makes it fit anything.

You do bring up a good point I think I can make the board accept both I'll have to see.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
Well good idea! Fits perfectly in the space under the 'plug in' spot, don't know why I didn't think of that *slap*
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
Starfire, I wonder if you would be interested in 1) Modifying Bibo's board deisgn to fit the livid pads and or 2) designing a 64 board similar to bibo's that would accept the livid pads...
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
Yeah I could take a look at it, if there are specs, but I haven't seen any on those buttons but it would be cool otherwise.

I saw those buttons and though they would work good and seem like they would be easy to get.

Also here is the layout with both SMD and the socket USB. I also broke out the 4 extra digital I/O unused on the arduinome of the atmega168 if people want to use them, plus 2 of them are PWM capable. So essentially you can access every I/O the atmega168 offers.
- Picture 23.jpg
- CommentAuthorMelo D
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009 edited
I've made a design the livid pads in kicad that i can make avaliable. I made a schematic and netlist for all components to ensure no electrical errors. I've also made a footprint for a livid 72mm fader to fit inbetween the two buttons to act as a cross fader. alos like to include a breakout for the ADXL3xx tilt sensor.

I've got a quote back and the lowest I could get it was $800CDN for 10. I'd definitely look at re-quoting this on MFG once I have some bugs worked out.

there are some interesting feautures as well:

-light pipe into the led hole inside the pad. they use an smt design
-about 0.5" wider than the monome pads.
-extended from the 8x8 and mounts two extra buttons, and leaves room for optional components. i.e potentiometers .
-pads are much taller to allow other potentiometers to be mounted on the same PCB. http://lividshop.com/hardware/spacer-layer.html

starfire - what PCB program are you using? Only problem I have with KiCad is that its taking my cirlcle traces and turning them into segmented lines. (you can see this in the component layer on the button pad). Also theres a bug in the arc copper tool where it will always draw the radius arms. (i can't have a half circle trace)
- Livid_pads_all_layers.png
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
I use Eagle I would love to know the specs for the pads as to conductive area size and spacing between buttons, etc.
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
They are on the livid site... 800 CDN for 10... probably get it much cheaper a batch or 4pcb...
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009 edited
I see they are, I'll check it out.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
Just wanted to update that I made a new post at my blog, nothing new really, just some thanks and what not.

http://starfiretech.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/arduinome-logic-board-cont/
- CommentAuthorMelo D
- CommentTimeOct 30th 2009
i re did the quote and actually will now be $750/16 pcs. $600 / 10 pcs. I'll still try batch and 4pcb as suggested.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 31st 2009
I was testing some more this is using the seeedstudio board and buttons, works good with it also! Just some boiing and sylenth in live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zlUF_0eyxI
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeOct 31st 2009
YouTube insists that your video is private.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 31st 2009
Yup damn imovie always defaults to that. Fixed now.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeOct 31st 2009
Here is a board that 'should' work for the livid buttons, I used their own libray for eagle for the single pad contact design. I layed out the spacing based on there info.

A 3mm LED fits in the contact area but that depends on the buttons design also.

Now here is the problem, size is 6.9"x6.45", that's not that big, about the size of the monome 40h kit board, a little larger, but one off price at batchPCB is a whopping $112 dollars.
- pad.jpg
- CommentAuthorbobsagat666
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
very nice! Just curious how you decided which pad contact to use. I noticed the library had 4 or so choices.
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
Hmm. It looks like there's a block of pins on either side. I'm guessing it'd be a pain and a half to relocate those?

I ask because, if they sat next to each other on one side, or were even at a right angle, there'd be even spacing for a makeshift 256 (cramming four of these in a case). That's sort of the holy grail right now.

Regardless, this is a huge step forward. We just need to test it.

** deep breath **

If I donate the cost of your one-off, would you be willing to build it out and test with your controller? I know it's a lot of work.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
I could move them and I'be happy to build and test one, I'd really like to move this along too as it could be a nice advantage to the larger boards
- CommentAuthorEdition
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
I'm interested in gettin a couple for the 128 im building. I've already got the unsped shields but hell, if do this, its better for me.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
@bobsagat666

There is a DXF file on the site also and when you open it that pad is in it.
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
All right, then. You've got mail. =)
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
Here is a new version with the relocated pins so you can fit a 256 if you place all the pins on the outside.
- pad2.jpg
- CommentAuthorRAH
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
I am a nOOb to this whole world, but I've been lurking and learning for a while.

I'm going to take a crack at building a 128.

I definitely would be interested in two of these boards, so sign me up.
- CommentAuthorbeshanoe
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009 edited
Starfire, is your arduinome logic board opensource project or not? Will you share eagle layout files? Im very interested in first design of your board, with SMD ftdi chip. Thanks
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
It will be, I'm not going to release anything unless I know it works. Also the latest design can be use either way with the SMD chip or with the 'plug in' module.
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
@starfire This is fantastic, can't believe you dev'd the board so quickly. is there anything you need from me?

@>0 best hting to do is take pix from unwrap to finish... we need to start doc'n from thebginning so there are no gaps in knowledge.
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
@SHvanBommel,

Agreed. But should that happen on the prototype board, or wait until we have something finalized? (I don't know if the look of the board is likely to change)

Either way, there might have been some confusion as to my present involvement. I sent Starfire the funds to order a one-off for testing. I won't be receiving the board myself, 'cause that would be silly -- I don't have a controller to test it on, let alone the all-in-one version we really want to see it attached to. Starfire's agreed to build it out so progress can continue, and that one-off is his, no strings attached.

(I can't arrange a parade or declare it national Starfire day, but he's earned a free board at least)
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
IMPORTANT NOTE:

This thread has branched to cover two topics: the all-in-one board, and the pcb for supporting livid's smaller/cheaper buttons. There's no group buy in progress on either yet, but if there were, announcing "I want one" doesn't convey which item you're interested in.

When everything's tested and ready to move forward, I'm sure there will be separate threads for each, or at least one thread where it's made very clear that you have to specify what you're asking for. You'll have to repeat yourself there, as the confusion over which item you're talking about in this thread makes it impossible for anyone to maintain a list.

Sorry for the confusion. Let's just form two single-file lines so that nobody gets left out.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
I ordered a set of the livid buttons so again it's a waiting game for both the logic and button board. I still need to order some components also but they are quick. Also remember if you don't have a way of loading the bootloader on the atmega168 you need to buy a version with the bootloader installed, alot of places sell them like sparkfun.
- CommentAuthorMelo D
- CommentTimeNov 2nd 2009 edited
I'd be willing to contribute to a prototype board for the livid pads as theres not much point in having two different boards prototyped. I do have a few concerns though:

- I don't see why livid made a square button pad for a circle conductive pad? i didn't look at there library but I designed the pad the way the monome pcbs are

- whats the plan for the two extra buttons? i'd like to utilize them and some other analog devices as well. tilt, pots. it wouldn't make the price much different if you included the two buttons and a breakout for the fader and tilt sensor. my plan was to have the extension and the user could cut off this extra extension. Aviation cutters or tin snips work excellent for cutting boards. theres no risk because there are no copper traces crossing over to the extra extension.

- these pads might not work so well for a slim design as it requires that spacer. also once the spacer is installed the faceplate will have to be less that 1/8". i'd assume its designed this way to have a thin, low cost mass manufactured faceplate

- extra holes. the pads have 4 rows of larger holes that aren't included in your design. i don't know what these are used for?
- monomevslivid2.jpg
- monomevslivid1.jpg
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 2nd 2009
I did notice they are taller but I think a custom faceplate would work fine along with some spacers, this was something I planned on mocking up, that's something that has to be decided upon buy the builder.

As for the contact design I questioned it also but I figured they have more expertise so I just used their design.

The only reason I didn't include the extra buttons was if people wanted to make a 128 or 256, what could be done is a succession of drill hole like the break off piece of the unsped board but for now since it's a prototype I just wanted to keep it simple.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeNov 2nd 2009
So I'm ordering parts, and usually there is a discount for larger quantities (even just 10) so here is my thought. I have 10 logic boards coming, I'd be willing to buy the parts and assemble these 10 and sell them for the price of the board and parts plus a couple buck for assembly, would people be up for that? I could build them either with the SMD usb chip or just the socket type which you can then buy your self.

I'd let you know more when I get everything but probably be like 35-45 bucks for a board assembled, I'd burn the bootloader for the atmega and test em.
- CommentAuthorfixatemusic
- CommentTimeNov 2nd 2009
If it ends up being on the lower end of that 35-45 estimate, I might be interested, otherwise I might opt to assemble one myself.

Haven't looked in a while, how much is the arduino board + unsped shield(average) usually run?

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All-in-one Arduinome 64 Logic Board