STARFIRE Button Pads/Logic PCBs (GB Closed, discussion ongoing)

projects

- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
If you want to do a lot of sanding it'll work, but there is s pretty good amount of space between the holes and the button edge.

It's workable, but maybe add some thin wood veneer to the top, that'll help it out a lot!
- CommentAuthorjugganaut
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
@starfire are there any CAD files or drawings for the spacing for the livid pads and the button board mounting holes? I want to start working on a faceplate, but need some idea of measurements. Also, what thickness is suggested? 3/8"? 1/2"? Planning on having a friend waterjet some aluminum plate...
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009 edited
I'd recommend .5" for total thickness

Here is the faceplate I made that you see in the previously posted video.

Hole size is up to you for the most part, I'd just tap them if you are going to go aluminum.

That is at 100% scale.
- faceplate.pdf
- CommentAuthorthesuperorganism
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
before i put an order in (probably for 4 of everything i think) can someone say anything about the ballpark estimate of a cost of a buttonpad board and the logic board? i know the kit is 20-25$ at most, but anyone know roughly at least how much the others are going to be? i read through the thread, but there was little information...

also, does anyone know if there is any disadvantage at all to making a 256 out of 4 64s linked with a powered usb hub? like latency or difficulty of use? do you have to open more than 1 arduinome serials and set the columns and rows in each or can you just open one instance of it..im a little confused about how that all works...but im assuming its nothing too crazy?

also, do the kits come with the larger usb plug/chip thing or just the tiny plug and tiny chip? i just hate soldering little teeny objects, but its not a huge deal.

also, if end up making a 256, id be willing to split the cost of at least a faceplate if not an enclosure with anyone who actually has access to someone that can make one

thanks everyone, and thanks starfire and S !! such an awesome job
- CommentAuthorprocom32
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
@Starfire
I saw this video that you posted on youtube and I was wondering. What buttons are these cause they don't look like the livid ones that are in you other video. Nice enclosure too, I like the thinner the better approach you take with your projects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzlGQuue0vo
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
Same buttons, though that face plate is plexi, while the other is PVC.

Well it's not *always* better but with the options we for parts have there is no reason not to take advantage of it. I would have made the whole board surface mount, but I wanted to make it easy for others to build.
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
@thesuper - there are no latency issues across the usb hub.as of right now the button boards are around 17.00 each and the AIO logics are around 6.00 these prices do not reflect shipping costs from manufactering and or packaging/shipping costs from me. i'm not going to make money on this but i don't want to spend anymore then i already am. These kits will not include the FT232 USB jumper, only the SMD controller. watch Starfires videos, you shouldn't have a problem. Also, the price of the component packs is not solid yet either, i'm hoping it to stay below 30.00, hoping, but i was expecting to see a 1:1:1 for logic/button board/kit ratio, not a big deal but, i'm still working those numbers :)

/S
atciv
- CommentAuthorthesuperorganism
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009 edited
well those prices are very fair and if theres a few bucks tacked on for charity and to give starfire and you enough for a nice dinner i wouldnt mind either, thanks man ;)

order placed on spreadsheet.. 4 4 and 4, sweeeet, time to buy a new soldering tip

btw starfire, i love the color of the leds in the video...is it just wierd footage or are they like teal or turquoise?
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
@Thesuper - i'm pretty sure that the only thing we want is for the charity :) starfire deserves alll the credit and any donations.

I will close the group buy on the 27th of December and will finalize pricing on the same date. Collection of funds will start in the first week in january, I hope to have all funds and place order by the second friday in January.

it will be about 2 weeks to process boards and components, then, and forgive me, approximately a week to sort parts and assemble component packs, then I will begin shipping out kits, all at once, so expect to see your kits/boards what have you, by the last week in Jan, At the latest, first week in feb.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
The LEDs are just green, must be the video and lighting. I got them off Ebay. I always have such a hard time deciding on LED color LOL!
- CommentAuthorjose.franco
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009 edited
I got my button pads today. Here they are kind of butted up together to give everyone an idea of what a 256 layout might look like.

http://josefranco.org/?p=342

Some trimming will need to be done to get the gap size right between each set of pads. Starfire was right... these pads are nice!
- CommentAuthorincarna
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
Hi, was just wondering if it's to late to get in on this. Is there any indication on what the pricing might be at the moment and can it be shipped to Australia? Sorry if i'm late to the game but these kits seem to be such a great deal.
- CommentAuthorAphasia
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
@incarna

It seems this group buy will close on the 27th, approximate prices are button boards are around 17.00 each and the AIO logics are around 6.00 these prices do not reflect shipping costs from manufactering and or packaging/shipping costs from SHvanBommel. Shipping to Australia is likely to be possible as shipping to the UK from the US is, for the livid buttons ShvanBommel has kindly offered to ship those out to people who buy them along with the other things for a much cheaper price than livid charge themselves.
- CommentAuthorincarna
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
sounds good i think i'll put myself down for one of each, so i just add to the google excel sheet?
- CommentAuthorStrophlex
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
@incarna

Yes
- CommentAuthorStrophlex
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
[quote]
also, if end up making a 256, id be willing to split the cost of at least a faceplate if not an enclosure with anyone who actually has access to someone that can make one
[/quote]

Me too...
- CommentAuthorStrophlex
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
Is a externally powered USB hub necessary for a 4x64 configuration and if so, why?
- CommentAuthorAphasia
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
//Is a externally powered USB hub necessary for a 4x64 configuration and if so, why?//

I don't think it's a neccessity but it would be helpful depending on your outlook. The reason for using a powered hub would be that there is only one cable going into the enclosure. If you get one with external power then you could just take that cable out from the enclosure and plug it in and it should be exactly the same.
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
I use an internal on my 128....
- CommentAuthorStrophlex
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
[quote]
I don't think it's a neccessity but it would be helpful depending on your outlook. The reason for using a powered hub would be that there is only one cable going into the enclosure. If you get one with external power then you could just take that cable out from the enclosure and plug it in and it should be exactly the same.
[/quote]

Sorry Aphasia, I don't really get your answere. My question, for clearity, is if I can run the 256 with power from the USB connector.

You mean that unplugging the USB cable and keeping power on would save the state of the arduinome while connecting it to another device?
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
@strophlex - you cannot run the 256 off of just USB power, you would need a powered hub. not a big deal, i have a 3 dollar 5 port usb 2 hub... works perfect, just took the enclosure off, and bolted it down. :)

/s

atciv
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
@aphashia, the power requirements for a 256 are much higher then a usb port could support, that's why the powered hub.
- CommentAuthorAphasia
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
ah fair enough. I had an inkling after posting that I was mistaken.
- CommentAuthorthesuperorganism
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
its not like youre trying to start a car, but the usb bus alone from your computer cannot light up all those leds and send current through all the legs of that circuit, 128 or above should be externally powered just to be safe....except the brand new greyscale 128 from tehn will be bus powered

also just to bump the idea....please post ideas for how some of us can have some kind of access to a 256 enlosure or at least a faceplate (the hardest thing to make)
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
My 128 runs off USB alone, but there is also a cable that will pull power from 2 USB ports in one cable.

Like this one: http://www.projectorzone.com/Cables-to-Go-28107

Now the one I use (Works fine with a normal cable, but just incase) has a double plug on the power side so I can still access the USB port.

Like this one but with out the goofy battery box thingy (look at the extra end):
http://www.bixnet.com/usbcawibuba.html
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009 edited
Here is a 256 faceplate file
- faceplate256.pdf
- CommentAuthorStrophlex
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
If the LEDs draw 10mA each and all 256 LEDs are lit they will draw 2.56 A... Pretty much.
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
You can also increase the 20K resistor to something larger which will reduce the draw, but also the brightness.

My 128 runs perfectly fine on both my laptop and desktop, sometimes laptops will put out less power to the USB.

You *might* be able to get away with it using a low current LED like this:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=754-1246-ND

But still no guarantee
- CommentAuthoregr
- CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
Thanks for the faceplate pdfs, Starfire!
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2009
bump.
- CommentAuthorpsalm
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2009
check it...

i updated the my info on the spreadsheet!

curious:

if US members are discouraged to put it for the livid button pads...

...where am i supposed to get my pads???

iloveyou !!!
- CommentAuthorpsalm
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2009
typo:

*put in! for the livid pads!

oh oh oh .... ps ...

i can use the bibo/sparkfun shizz right???

love
- CommentAuthorStarfire
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2009
Yes you can use bibo board
- CommentAuthorulfp
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2009
I've updated from 2 to 4 of everything. I've been building an unsped+sparkfun arduinome, and that seems to be going OK (apart from the friggin enclosure!), so I'm going to try for a 256 on this one.
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeDec 12th 2009 edited
@ulfp,

If you already have the bibo pcb and sparkfun pads, you can use those instead of the starfire pcb and livid pads.

If you -don't- already have the sparkfun pads, run a price comparison and let's talk about the livid ones. :)

If you're using the starfire pcb, you need the livid pads.

Livid pads can be purchased from:
http://lividshop.com/hardware/rubber-key-pads.html

...and depending on your enclosure plans, you may or may not want to pair those up with these spacers:
http://lividshop.com/hardware/spacer-layer.html

(the reason those pads are on the spreadsheet at all is that Livid charges so much for international shipping. within the US, they're quite reasonable, so there's no need for anyone to go through that hassle on your behalf. Just order that part directly.)
- CommentAuthordalorin
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2009
I'm down for it.

The Atmega 168 that comes with the kit will already have the Arduino bootloader right? I don't have a programmer.

Thanks
- CommentAuthorulfp
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2009
@greaterthanzero

With the first one I'm building I'm going the unsped+arduino+sparkfun way. I'm all out on hardware, therefore the full order. And as for the pads, well I'm in Denmark, and the cost of shipping them alone is *** horrendous.

I've been talking to a friend of mine who's a woodworker, and he'll try and help me make the front plate in wood. With the sparkfun pads it'll probably be 10mm. I'm not that far yet, as I'm still waiting on the unsped boards from the group buy.
- CommentAuthorGreaterThanZero
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2009 edited
@dalorin,

Yes.

@ulfp,

I'm still confused about what you do or don't already have, but so long as you know what you still need, it's all good. =)

(In case this point wasn't clear, if you did go the Livid pad route through this group buy, because you aren't in the USA and because shipping from Livid to other countries is horrendous, SHvanBommel offered to order those pads, have them shipped to his home in the USA, and then ship them to you himself. That offer doesn't apply to the rest of us here in the US, is all)
- CommentAuthorulfp
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2009
@greaterthanzero

Heh, I've just read what I wrote, and yeah -- it's confusing. I'm doing two different arduinomes, the first which is almost done (bar the enclosure and the unsped board), and the new one, where I don't have any parts, apart from leds).

Geh, xmas lunches and 2am here (Denmark). Sorry for being unclear.
- CommentAuthorSHvanBommel
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2009
@ulfp - no worries, if you need livid pads, i will ship, assuming they are available byt the end of this.

@dalorin - i will only have access to so many atmegas with bootloaders, the rest i will have to flash myself, or ship seperately, I am going to say right now that the place i am geting loaded atmegas from will not have a full complement of preloaded ones, that does not deter me from flashing them, i'm just saying, right now.

YOUR ATMEGAS WILL COME PREFLASHED WITH BOOTLOADER.

/s
atciv

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STARFIRE Button Pads/Logic PCBs (GB Closed, discussion ongoing)