Live 7 Drum Racks and monomes, your thoughts?

applications

- CommentAuthortone deft
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
Live 7's drum racks take rack slots and marry them with an array of 4 by 32 array of drum slots, each slot can be a simpler/sampler, or an impulse. how can people see this visualized on a monome device?

the 4 wide nature seems like a nice fit, then a keyboard modifier to show a step sequencer in another 40h display like _flip does??
- CommentAuthorlongjohns
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
I think my thoughts are known by the appropriate parties, but since you've given me this opportunity to reiterate... ;)

MIDI assignments in monomeserial would be a big help!

:)
- CommentAuthortone deft
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
yeah, I read your troubles with max runtime, unfortunately that's the only way I can code a drum map out. I would think that with max/msp 5 coming out, that will include a runtime update. it's supposed to be an internal overhaul.

it'll be a bit until I'm ready to write a max patch, too much else going on right now, but there's time for ideas to germinate.
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007 edited
i've been working on a new maxmsp/live hack for a while and the drum racks in version 7 is gonna be perfect for this app.

it's a small scratchpad for beats/sequences

top left 4x4 = 16 pads
bottom 4x8 = 32 step sequencer for each pad
top right 4x4 = misc controls such as start/stop

step sequencing + live input recording (tho this is quantized to the step sequence)

the step sequencer is a midi rack in live (similar to livestep but layout on monome is different) so it's synced up

quite a lot left to do on it but i'll try to record a demo vid today!

cheers
anton
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007 edited
here's a demo with them default ableton impulse drums heavily distorted through saturator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsdrtFa_hlE

first the 4x4 pads are previewed
then some drums are entered in the step seq area
then there is some shabby 'live' recording (thank god for quantization).
(i had pad preview on during the whole demo, hence the off-beat notes :) )

it's only one 32 step pattern at the moment, which is pretty useless. my goal is to have more patterns, a song/pattern chaining mode, variable velocity for notes and other stuff

that 4x4 pad grid in the top corner works fine with drum racks
- CommentAuthorbolig
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
damn jah… that looks pretty fun!
- CommentAuthorphi
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
nice one jah! love your lstep48 app too, my favorite 40h/ableton step sequencer.
- CommentAuthortone deft
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
I like it!!! nice work!!
- CommentAuthorsoundcyst
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
way neat. now you've made me desire Live as well.
- CommentAuthorwingo
- CommentTimeOct 8th 2007
Hey, Jah - I like the way that looks! Great idea having the ability to input steps and/or record them live. It would be killer if you posted that up.

This may sound like a stupid question, but how do you have two instances of Impulse within the same sequence? I'm sure it's simpler than I think, but for the life of me I can't see how you would set that up so that you weren't triggering them both simultaneously since Impulse always uses the same 8 notes. Do you have them on two different midi channels? Or can you change the notes that trigger Impulse somehow that I'm not aware of?
- CommentAuthorgrimmage
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
ya jah, i've gotta go with the consensus, that was awesome. I second wingo's question about the two instances of Impulse. Was is it easy to set that up?
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
thank you for your kind words! i'm still working on this, adding stuff and revising the design. i hope i can upload some kind of preview of it soon. and as i said it's gonna be a maxmsp/live combo.

wingo, grimmage: the output of this seq is 16 notes from C-2 and upwards. to use this note range with two impulse you have to put notes through scale and pitch objects. for convenience the impulse devices can be put in an instrument rack so they fit on one midi track. i can upload an example live project of this if you want.
- CommentAuthorveiss
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
please do
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
The MPC Killer instrument rack works this way. It is a chain of 16 instances of impulse with scale effects for each (along with some other effects). It's a great template to start with.

I have 8 of my 16 Trigger Finger presets setup with midi notes 0-127 on channel 10. Each TF preset triggers therefore triggers sounds in 2 of the 16 instances of impulse at a time. This way, I get 8 kits of 16 samples each that I can easily toggle through on 1 track.

Then I'll have a few other tracks with blank midi clips, record enabled, sending their midi to the track with the MPC Killer. When I click on one of the blank midi clips (with midi in set "from TF"), the midi from the TF is recorded (for whatever the length of the clip is) and routed to the MPC Killer track. Live looping!

I can throw down a kick, snare, hi-hat groove, record to a midi clip, switch TF presets, and then record a djembe pattern to another midi clip, and on and on... Great fun!
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007 edited
After downloading, rename MPC_Killer.rar to MPC_Killer.als. It's not really a .rar file...

edit - Sorry, this doesn't seem to work. I'll see if I can make a real .rar file later and post it up. Or search for MPC Killer over on the ableton forum. That's where I found it.

edit 2 - Dumb question...what app do I need to create a .rar file in os x? Can't seem to find any freeware...
- MPC_Killer.rar
- CommentAuthortehn
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
just use finder. right click, "create archive" and it'll make a .zip which is fine.
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
Right on. The message I got earlier said only rar and doc, so I didn't even try to post a zip. Anyway, here it is. Sorry for the trouble.
- MPC_Killer Project.zip
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
...back home from work. i've heard about mpc killer, gonna check it out! :)

here's a live project with 2 impulses on one midi track triggered from midi notes C-2 to D#-1, like i trigger them from my app. i guess it works in the same way as mpc killer:
http://www.hornquist.se/2_Impulse_Devices.zip

midi routing is quite versatile in live once you get your head around it!
- CommentAuthorgrimmage
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
jah and hypno, what methods are you guys using to interface the 40h with live? Monoableme, the monochrome VST, something else? I have yet to try and get the 40h and live talking to one another so I'm trying to gather info.
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
depends on what i want to do. i mostly use maxmsp together with ableton live with my own custom made patches. you can find some of my ableton live/maxmsp patches on http://www.hornquist.se/monome

liveio is a simple osc to midi / midi to osc converter
livestep is a step sequencer

another step sequencer is in the works (the one on the youtube-link above)

the step sequencers are quite messy maxmsp/ableton live configurations where i use midi racks in live and the monome acts as a remote of sorts..
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
Like jah, it depends. I sometimes run monome serial and monochrome in live, using the monome just to control monochrome sequences, and my trigger finger to play organic grooves.

Or I will use the monome with mlr and battery (played by trigger finger), with battery as the input to mlr. Then I'll route the audio from mlr (via soundflower) to live for effects, etc.

I was using monogrid to interface with live, and it worked very well. But for some reason, my faderfox live templates didn't seem to play well with monogrid, and liked to kill the chuck shred when I hit the monome pads too quickly. For non-faderfox sets, though, monogrid is awesome.
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007 edited
btw: i also use the midi send patch in the base lib a lot. it's great.

hypno, what faderfox model do you have? are they any good? on my request a faderfox lc2 is gonna show up at my local music store any time now so i can try it out. i'll probably end up buying it :)

my idea is to incorporate a faderfox into this step sequencer i'm making - twist knobs while holding a step button to quickly set step parameters. i got this idea while watching a youtube vid of the elektron machinedrum - the parameter locks on the elektron machines are really cool!
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
@ jah - I've got the lv2. Pretty much the same as the lc2 but minus the cross fader and plus 6 more buttons. I can certainly see the benefit of the cross fader, though. I'm sure you will love it. Made with the same level of thought and care as the monome.

The thing is great. Complete control over live. Plus plenty of effects control. Really nice alps faders, and sweet endless detented push-button rotary encoders. It pretty much removes the need to ever touch the computer. Plus I love the fact that the midi notes/cc controls it sends are fixed. In my opinion, it makes the setup much easier. It uses up 3 midi channels, though (13-15).

The faderfox live templates are great...extensive midi mapping. Like I said before, for some reason they like to kill the chuck shred when I run monogrid. At some point I plan to deconstruct the templates to find out exactly what is causing the conflict. Until then, I just manually midi map live sets if I need to use monogrid. Somewhat time consuming, but worth it. It will only get better with live 7 and drum racks.
- CommentAuthorwingo
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
I have also had a few issues using Monogrid (which is, on its own, really great) with my little M-Audio midi controller/audio interface. I noticed it has a tendency to kill the shred when I really start to get going. I don't know if it's just an overload of midi messages or what. I haven't really had the patience recently to dig in and see if I could get them to coexist better. I've taken to using Monochrome a lot - it's really fun with Live, and works pretty much straight out of the box. All you need is Monomeserial running. It's developed into a fairly deep VST at this point. It's not quite the mlr-style juggling you get using Monogrid, but it's less hassle and great for just straight sequencing.

BTW - thanks for the tips Jah and Hypno. I never even thought of using the scale effect to that end. Really handy! I guess I've gotta dive into those midi effects a bit more...
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007 edited
hey folks. you can preview an early version of my new app now: http://hornquist.se/monome/files/drumwreck.zip

top left 4x4 = 16 pads
top right 4x4 = control (see below)
bottom 8x4 = steps for the current selected pad

controls 4x4 buttons from top left:
16levels | (unassigned) | click on/off | mod button
clear entire pattern | clear selected pad's steps | (unassigned) | (unassigned)
(unassigned) | (unassigned) | left | right
(unassigned) | rec | play | stop

by default last triggered pad gets selected

the 16 levels switch turns pads into 16 velocity levels for the selected pad. mpc inspiration :)

you can also select a pad w/o triggering it with mod+pad 4x4, this is great for switching pads in 16 levels mode

sequencing:
you can draw steps by pressing the pattern 8x4. hold a step and press the pad you set the velocity level. hold a step a bit longer (500ms i think) and velocity level will be shown.

or hit record and play and start to hit the pads (live input recording). all hits will be quantized to the closest step (a bit flaky right now tho).

you can also record step by step if you only enable record when sequencer is stopped, but this is very buggy right now, may not work.

this is just an early version: nothing is saved at all, there are features to be added
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007 edited
oops.. how you set it all up. this is a bit tricky:

you must use midi yoke or the mac equivalent.

(1) doubleclick the box called [p setup] in the max patch and choose three internal ports:
live remote: input
live remote: output
live track: output

(2) open ableton live preferences:
set the port chosen as "live remote: input" to "input, track: on" and "input, remote: on"
set the port chosen as "live remote: output" port to "output, remote: out"
set the port chosen as "live track: output" port to "output, track: out"
close ableton live preferences.

(3) in the drumwreck chn2 channel midi track i/o set "midi from" to the "live remote: input" port / All Channels and "midi to" to the "live track: output" port / Ch.1

phew... i hope you figure it out. it's pretty cool once you get it up and running :)

when the app is in a more stable shape i'll put up a setup tutorial on http://www.hornquist.se/monome i promise!
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
Awesome, thanks for sharing! I can't wait to try it out tonight.

Not to get too far ahead, but will there be a 256 version of this in the future? :)
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
@ hypno: i only have a 40h, so i'm not sure of that..

perhaps someone else can expand it :)
- CommentAuthorrcutz
- CommentTimeOct 23rd 2007
Hi jah,

I make a post, asking for help related to livestep here
http://post.monome.org/comments.php?DiscussionID=133

I hope you can help me, ;)

cheers
ricardo
- CommentAuthorrcutz
- CommentTimeOct 23rd 2007
Hi jah, Drumwreck is bit trick, :)

My one is not "counting the steps" on monome.
What could I been missing?

cheers
ricardo
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
you mean playback position isn't showing up in the pattern area (bottom 8x4)? can you trigger drums in the pad 4x4 (top left 4x4)? i guess this can be something with the midi port settings in the max patch or live project.

drumwreck is messy at the moment. i'm working on it :)
- CommentAuthorishnock
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
I took a look at your chaining, and I now understand how you ran 2 instances of impulse on the same track. Nice.

After watching your tutorial, it makes creating music so much easier, and less mouse and click. I see that the monome is a must have....
- CommentAuthorrcutz
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
Yeah!.

You get what I mean.
I can trigger, but I can`t program.

I send you a picture of my I/O at live to you see If I`m doing something wrong.

cheers
rcutz

Ps: the livestep:impulse works beautifully. Thanks! =]
- Picture 3.png
- Picture 2.png
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
perhaps you give me a screenshot of your maxmsp [p setup] settings?

i think the "midi from" of Drumwreck CHN2 should be set to the port you've chosen as "live remote: input". that might be "from maxmsp runtime 1" in your case, though i'm not sure

the setup will be easier in upcoming versions :)
- CommentAuthorrcutz
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
My [p set up]

input: maxmsp runtime 1
remote output: maxmsp runtime 2
track output: maxmsp runtime 2

If I choose maxmsp runtime 1 to Drumwreck CHN2, there will be a lack of communication between Drumwreck CHN2 and 1, no?

It`s the same setting I use i the livestep.

I will try
I also send to you a picture of your original live session, note the midi yoke...
I guess the midiyoke 5 turns to maxmsp 1
and midiyoke 7 turns to be maxmsp 2, right?
- Picture 1.png
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007 edited
ishnock: yeah, i like simple, hands-on interfaces and the monome is a great product for this. my goal for this drumwreck patch is to be able to put together sequences without watching the screen.

rcutz: drumwreck chn2 should have your midi ports set for both input and output. it's not working exactly the same as livestep. since chn1 i set to send midi to chn2 and chn2 has monitoring set to 'in' there's a connection between the two channels. i uploaded some images on how you set it up on winxp:

maxmsp [p setup]:
http://hornquist.se/monome/drumwrecksetup/maxmsp.png

live preferences:
http://hornquist.se/monome/drumwrecksetup/liveprefs.png

live track:
http://hornquist.se/monome/drumwrecksetup/livetrack.png

at the moment you need three different midi ports. this may change, since this is just an early version!

did this help?

cheers,
anton / jah
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2007 edited
*bump* (more setup instructions edited into previous reply)
- CommentAuthorrcutz
- CommentTimeOct 26th 2007
HI jah, IT WORKS! BEAUTFULLY!

It seems to did not work exactelly like yours.
the step sequencer was ok.

but the buttons are not the same: we have the first 4 pads, one "blank" and then rec play stop? Is that right?

When I press the fourth button, from rigth to the left, in the top row, all 16 pads start to blink, then the bellow button work as cleaner.
Is that ok?

Curiosity:
If I wanted to use 4 impulses, I just need to use the chain feature of Live Rack to swap between then, coping the pitch to one of then rigth?

congratulations for this work and support!
And thanks to make it available!

cheers
ricardo
www.ricardocutz.com.br
- CommentAuthorjah
- CommentTimeOct 26th 2007
the youtube video is taken from an early version so it's not working exactly the same.

the patch is laid out like this:
aaaabbbb
aaaabbbb
aaaabbbb
aaaabbbb
ccccccccc
ccccccccc
ccccccccc
ccccccccc

a 4x4 = pads for the 16 different drums or 16 levels for the selected pad (when in 16 levels mode)
b 4x4 = controls
c 8x4 = pattern/steps for currently selected pad

i think you must've pressed the 16 levels button. that's the 5th top button from the left. that turns the a 4x4 into controlling velocity for the selected pad.

or perhaps there is a bug somewhere :)

cheers,
anton
- CommentAuthorbolig
- CommentTimeNov 4th 2007
finally sat down with this today. wow what a gem! super fun to play man good work.

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Live 7 Drum Racks and monomes, your thoughts?