syncing up two laptops for live?

help

- CommentAuthorsleepingcitizens
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008 edited
me and my friend are soon to start getting our shit together to play live. we have the music we just need one or two more pieces of gear, mainly a PA for practice and i def. need to get myself a novation remote zero because it would cut down a lot of the fumbling around i do on my laptop. i've always been the guy in the studio recording myself an all my friends in town, but now that i want to move live i've realized there are many things i need to learn. it's actually exciting!

what me and luke are wondering is, we both want to use laptops on stage, and say he was sequencing shit on ableton on his laptop, and i was also using ableton, but doing things with my monome/various other apps, is there a way to link both of our laptops up so we are sync'd tempo wise and such? for scenario, that when i or he pressed play in ableton, the other laptop woudl start also so all of our various loops and things would sync up? what software/hardware is needed to do that, and how would we go about hooking that up?
we both have mac laptops.

thanks, guys!
- CommentAuthorarctic-sunrise
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
ableton live has something built in for linking laptops, cant remmber as i dont use it, but i rekko you link via your soundcards and set one to master and one to slave/ so yeh software wise you just both have live. check the live forums and see, ill have a look about n see if i can be more specific
- CommentAuthort1mp
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
you can link it via midi. go to ableton dot com and search on the forum for syncing via midi. I have it setup on my rigs but cannot accurately tell you from memory alone. The jist of it is you will do midi out to midi in from one laptop to another and have the midi in machine sync to the midi out machine. set up in midi prefs in live.. then the midi in machine when in ableton you will press the EXT button and it will slave to the the midi out machine, the midi out machine will now dictate bpm, start stop, record all that.
- CommentAuthorsleepingcitizens
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
awesome, i really appreciate your guys help! my number one fear would be having my laptop going into a chorus sequence and just because either me or luke pressed play a little too soon/late, it all messes up. but now i don't have to have that worry, good times!
- CommentAuthorsteve_duda
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
since you're both OSX you can use network, built-in to AudioMIDI Setup on OSX for tighter sync than 2 MIDI interfaces will provide. From my experience this is the best way to beatclock sync two machines running Live tightly, since it is timestamped it is a far superior to physical MIDI.
- CommentAuthorcrixmadine
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
I agree with Steve that directly linking and syncing two laptops via midi and expecting them to stay in-sync is an unreasonable expectation. You will find over time they will start drifting from one another. It's additional hardware but there is a professional product that deals with this issue called the Sync-Shift Mark II from Innerclock Systems:
http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=21

It also handles rock solid sync with Din devices too if you have any of those. The built-in network sync capabilities of OSX that Steve mentions sounds like a viable solution too! Good luck!
- CommentAuthormapmap
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
i've been wondering for a while if there is some kind of osx ethernet/midi solution?
- CommentAuthorc1t1zen
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
Momo_The_Monster showed us at the SoCal Meet up how to sync MIDI via wifi, It was real slick and no cables. Unfortunately it was a mac only setup.
- CommentAuthorsteve_duda
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008 edited
mapmap, it is in AudioMIDI Setup (huge Network icon).
theres a PC/crossplatform equivalent called IPMidi which is not free, but cheap.. at www.nerds.de
- CommentAuthorc1t1zen
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
Thanks Steve I'll look it up.
- CommentAuthoreacolin
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
"Momo_The_Monster showed us at the SoCal Meet up how to sync MIDI via wifi, It was real slick and no cables."

That would be really cool to get a tutorial for. Does anyone have his email?
- CommentAuthorwingo
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
Yeah, I can attest to the wifi hookup. Mono_the_monster blew my mind with that one. It's the same networking thing steve is referring to in AudioMIDI setup, only wireless.

I was busy drooling over how this could be implemented on stage, when I realized that you would have to have a wireless network in the club to make it work. Then later I realized that I have one of those Base stations...

So... technically I could set up a local network with the base station at a gig and get it going that way. Am I wrong? Haven't gotten a chance to give it a try yet...
- CommentAuthorc1t1zen
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
You could probably skip the base station and setup an AD HOC network between the laptops. I don't have experience with it but seems like a possibility without having to lug more gear. Now someone needs to make a small WIFI Dongle I can plug into any of my MIDI gear!
- CommentAuthormomo_the_monster
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
eacolin - your wish is my command. I'll see if I can whip up a tutorial this weekend.

wingo - you can indeed use an ad-hoc network like c1t1zen has said. I did this at the A+D museum to drive a set of LED lights from a Mac Mini under the performance tables, driven by my monome!
- CommentAuthorwingo
- CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
Killer! I am certainly going to give this a shot this weekend...
- CommentAuthorhypno|sapien
- CommentTimeFeb 16th 2008
I've had by far the best luck, either for synching two macs or a pc and a mac, by slaving live on both machines to any other external hardware device that sends midi clock (usually my E-mu PX-7). Super solid.

In fact, I've been toying with the idea of developing a small hardware box to do exactly that. It would have one midi in, 2-4 midi outs, a 3-digit lcd readout for tempo, a tempo control knob, and start and stop buttons. Oh, and some way to set meter and leds to flash with the tempo. Red led for the "1", green for the other beats.

Does anyone think this would be useful? Or does anyone know of something similar that already exists?
- CommentAuthormapmap
- CommentTimeFeb 16th 2008
momo, i can't wait for the tutorial.

hypno, i would love a sync box like that! could be useful for lots of projects.
- CommentAuthorowen_Vallis
- CommentTimeMay 5th 2008 edited
Hey guys, I don't know if anyone answered your question yet, but I use the LAN network thing all the time. Basically, on a mac

1) go to your airport icon on the top left of the screen and choose "create network." Name it anything you want.

2) open your prefrences -> network and create a new location. Turn off everything but Airport. Manually enter your IP address as 10.0.0.1 on the one computer and 10.0.0.2 on the other. enter your subnet mask as 255.255.255.0 on both computers.

3) Next go to your Audio/midi setup and choose the MidiDevices Tab. Then click on the Network object

4) In the top left create a new session by pressing the + button and name it. This is what other computer users will see as your session, as well as the name of the virtual midi port OSX will create.

5) In the bottom left where it asks who can connect to me choose "anyone"

Do steps 2-5 on the other computer you wish to connect to.

6) Have your other computer choose the airport network you created earlier by clicking on the airport icon at the top right. (the network will have the name you gave it earlier).

7) Now go back to the midi/network box and select the other session under directories and connect.

8) there will be a lag so adjust the midi clock delay to compensate.

Hope this helps.
- CommentAuthormapmap
- CommentTimeMay 5th 2008
awesome! thanks for the information!
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syncing up two laptops for live?